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Published Oct 30, 21
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Well, thanks quite. I wish to offer you all a break for a moment as well as turn to Mr. Swartz. You've been really patient, the 3 of you. I value that significantly. Usually, we would have had two panels, yet we didn't know how the Senate would certainly be operating today, so in an initiative to see to it we made it through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you aim out in your testament and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda additionally punctures financial institution secrecy and also gives a system for us obtaining the details we need. There have been some shared legal help treaties which contain provisions related straight to sharing bank records or various other monetary info.

Swartz. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. When it come to that particular issue, the board might be referring to the fairly brand-new provision that appears, as an example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, the identification of financial institution records provision. That was an arrangement that was prepared and also embraced in the context of the E.U.

Under that provision, it's feasible for the asking for event to look for info regarding whether an account exists in the asked for country, or when it comes to the E.U., among the asked for member states. Thereafter, the request, if there is a recognition of an account, must be adhered to up through a typical common lawful aid treaty.

And when it come to Bermuda, our document of cooperation has been extremely good. We think that the record we have on the manufacturing of documents, consisting of bank documents, is such that we are certain that the stipulations consisted of in this mutual lawful support treaty, which do require cooperation on the manufacturing of documents, will be enough to ensure that we obtain the records we require for our economic examinations as well as various other investigations.

Some various other MLATs additionally permit for urgent, non-written type demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Legal Assistance Treaty does require demands in written type, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was sufficient that, in this instance, with regard to Bermuda, we would be able to get prompt feedbacks to our demands as well as likewise provide such feedbacks to Bermuda's requests, especially due to the fact that we have a practice already developed that will certainly proceed, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those requests via email or through fax.

Senator Cardin. Was this, essentially, a decision made by UNITED STATE arbitrators, that it was not required, knowing exactly how we can quickly obtain faxes as well as emails sent out? Is that fair enough to say, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can assist on that one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that because they desired to ensure that the demands were clear and in a much more official means. Yet in the arrangements, it likewise became clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by email. So the actual issue they were worried about was not finding a fast ways to make a request, however actually just taking oral requests off the table.

We're positive that we have actually got the ways in place that we can make immediate requests of them in a way that will be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I could add, in reality, while it is a benefit to be able to make dental requests, in practice, it's extremely unusual that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My main worry is just, in urgent matters, that it's not postponed. And with modern interaction, it appears to me that can probably be dealt with. I'm extra concerned about bank documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of comments on the bank records concern? Mr. Johnson. Once again, not especially on the bank issue.

The difference in between being able to do an oral request or being able to utilize among these other extremely rapid means, we think, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There have actually been some issues increased regarding the competence of Bermuda regulation relative to forfeitures of profits and agencies of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Of program, the growth of forfeit regulation is an essential and also progressive matter. We have actually seen a number of changes over the course of the years, consisting of below in the United States. But the Common Lawful Aid Treaty in Article 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide aid to the United States in process associating with loss of earnings as well as agencies of crime, to the level permitted by the legislation of Bermuda.

We've had two instances of successful ask for restriction and forfeit of properties. Both circumstances were a success and we were able to acquire the funds. As a general matter, assistance is readily available under the regulations of Bermuda, and I do think that is necessary to anxiety, with regard to freezing, seizing, as well as limiting assets, consisting of for issues connecting to terrorism and also terrorism funding.

Yet it should be noted that forfeiture help is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic law. With respect to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not waive a details instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. Yet again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug offense instances.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. Allow me just ask the basic question, as well as any among you can react to it. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's a stipulation that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can deny teamwork in resources cases. We comprehend, I comprehend that, so I'm not being critical of that provision being included in there.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a method in which we are able to work together under this treaty, even in those instances? Mr. Chairman, we think and we wish we still would be able to comply.

Actually, we have that experience with other countries that have put similar interpretations on the common lawful help responsibilities, and also we've had the ability to work out setups in a variety of cases that permit us to obtain proof or talk about whether the evidence is substantial enough to move forward with some kind of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I can simply include to that, among the reasons this treaty took as lengthy it did to bargain as well as wrap up is due to the fact that it was important to us to ensure that there wasn't an express limitation on aid in resources situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz relevant to you. Which way we think that assists maintain the principle that is very important to us, that such participation must be readily available, irrespective of the type of situation. As well as we think this has additionally substantiated with some other countries, where also with similar concerns regarding participation in capital cases, they have, for instance, been able to offer help to the nonpenalty stage of a test or one more party investigation.

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Senator Cardin. Yet they do hold the right under this treaty to deny collaboration where the United States criminal justice system is seeking capital penalty? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not offer support in cases that contrast public plan or their essential passions, and they have actually informed us that they analyze that to allow them, in death sentence instances, to work out that.

I just desired to make it clear that they would not be an offense of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a case pending below that we required their help, where, clearly, the prosecutors were looking for the death penalty, Bermuda might choose not to comply under this treaty.

Swartz. If I can claim, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would certainly require, because this would certainly be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there needed to be examinations with the United States, prior to that denial can go forward. As well as I assume that's an important element of the negotiation that Mr.

Instead of having a specific arrangement, this is just one of a collection of problems under which aid might be denied after assessment, and, among various other points, that there must be factor to consider as to whether aid can be provided, subject to such problems as the asked for country deems needed. And our experience in that respect has actually been that we sometimes can discover ideal guarantees to permit proof to be created, at the very least for initial assessment of the importance of evidence in the event on the whole.

And I believe that would certainly be helpful for us to have that details in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We would certainly rejoice to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest job right here, because this arrangement was formerly authorized by this committee. As I said in my opening, we accepted it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any type of considerable adjustments in our financial investment connection with Rwanda since last November when you offered testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen because last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a few instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a major resort in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's growing friendliness market. I would state that, provided this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is important that the securities be afforded for them.

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investors. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise pointed out the fact that the United States is exploring other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe you pointed out another nation. I assume we have 5 present bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us other nations that the United States has shown interest in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I've been informed by the personnel that I must ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Us senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.



I assume that completes the questioning. I do value your perseverance with the committee as well as thank you really much for your testament today.

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As set out listed below, we would certainly such as to offer upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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And also I believe that would be useful for us to have that info in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We would certainly rejoice to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient task right here, because this agreement was previously accepted by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any type of substantial adjustments in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered statement on this treaty? What we have seen since last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can give you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. As well as, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to assist in the country's growing friendliness sector. So I would say that, offered this pattern of increased investment, that it is crucial that the securities be afforded for them.

investors. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You additionally stated the reality that the United States is checking out various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you discussed one other country. I think we have five existing reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us various other nations that the United States has shown interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I've been informed by the personnel that I should ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Senate passage of the Rwanda treaty, considering that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.

I assume that completes the questioning. We could have some added concerns for the record. As you recognize, the document remains open for 24 hr, so you obtain a break. That's a rather fast turn-around time for this committee. I do value your patience with the committee and also thank you really a lot for your testimony today.

Solution. As laid out listed below, we want to give upgraded information on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. Apart from these updates, the answers supplied by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay precise. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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